Ep 24: The Culture Problem of The Construction Industry

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Episode Transcript:

This transcription is provided verbatim from the excerpts of the podcast video “The Culture Problem of The Construction Industry” uploaded on the YouTube channel “Construction Hot Takes Podcast.”

Okay so I’ve got a topic for you all right uh we like to we like to surprise you with the topics um this this so this topic actually came out of a recent conversation two conversations actually one was a with a friend of mine a former colleague that works at a large global general contractor and the other was just another friend but uh smaller it was more of a personal personnel I mean personnel matter dealing with uh an employee okay so the topic is uh it’s kind of a a bit of a a jumble but the topic is basically um as as a Gen Xer you and I are right mhm uh the topic is kind of a generational what is you let’s talk about the gener generational divide in the construction industry we’ve got our generation there may be a few boomers still hanging around but we’re not talking about them our generation has moved into executive roles throughout the industry yes then you have your your millennials that are in that have moved into management senior management type of things right and then you’ve got the young kids i think they call them Gen Y now or Gen Z Y Gen Z i get confused alphas are too young they’re in their 20s right they’re they’re beginning their careers so the situation that the the question that came to me from my my friend at the large builder was they’ve had a quite a bit of turnover and uh uh they were looking he wanted to we wanted to talk about like how do you what kind of advice do you give to a young person on how to guide their career how do you get ahead in this business how do you how do you succeed how how not to burn out those types of topics okay so uh I guess I want to start with from your perspective how do you think you got ahead when you were in your 20s in this business uh what did you do to to advance wow that’s a good question so my 20s and how did you not go st you know start craving mad doing it because you’re still here you didn’t burn totally out no not totally how did I How did I get ahead well I mean um so like not to toot my own horn but I’m a pretty smart guy so uh my parents are both you know well educated they were educators i was educated uh so I was knowledgeable about a lot of stuff outside of construction right and I know how to I have good critical thinking skills okay i have good analytics i have good analysis so I was able to get ahead in the industry one just because I have some innate talents and skills that are aligned to the industry okay you know when it came to like estimating or project management I have that type of a brain so I I had some built-in stuff that helped um but I was also a guy who loved to work uh so I would put in the hours yeah i would go and go above and beyond one to get ahead but also because I got a lot of personal satisfaction out of it so I was just talking to my wife the other day and I was saying I love it’s about to you know be daylight savings time is about to end and it’s about to go to winter and I’m like I love this time of year i used to love getting up and being at work before the sun came up and staying till after the sun went down and cheating during during standard time it’s I’m saying it’s like but it’s easy you get maybe 8 hours of delight a day saying I get to do that now as a consultant but I used to love getting up and being on the job site 600 6:30 7 were being at the office before everybody and then I love being late at the office because usually at the end of the day the only person there besides me were ex the only people there were like executives so I would get a chance to talk to executives by staying late because everybody else went home and then I got access to people who are way up the chain and they saw me just because I liked working i had a lot putting in the effort there was always a lot to do there’s always more you could be doing you can get by by doing the 40 hours a week but you could get ahead by staying late and putting in the extra hours that was a real key was I I worked at a couple of smaller companies where I got access to owners or executives by staying late or being there early and they and they would want to talk to me because I was putting in the effort they they saw I was worth investing some of their time in um and then I think later on when I worked at big companies uh same thing i kind of led by example as I roseed the ranks i put in the hours and I expected the people on my team to also put in the effort at least so you touched on a couple of you touched on something there the innate talent part mhm so one thing I’ve I’ve I’ve observed in my career is there’s a couple of commonalities of people that are in this business um and it kind of falls under that innate talent thing mhm you know uh it it it’s some it looks like uh you’ll hear people say you know uh I like seeing the the fruits of my labor at the end of the day mhm like when I got here this morning there was nothing over there and now there’s a building standing there basically right sure and there’s a legacy to that uh that was there for me construction people are definitely problem solver thinker doer type of people as a general rule we’re pretty we can be kind of mathy engineery but so so the innate talent thing is something that I wanted to touch on so let’s say you’ve got a young younger person maybe in their 20s maybe they’re in their 30s and they’re looking for more mhm they want more there’s kind of a I’m being very general generalist here but there’s you know the younger generations have this rap that they they’re not as hard a worker as we were and I don’t know if our parents said that about us or not but that’s the that’s the general consensus everybody likes to kind of pick on the younger kids you guys don’t have the work ethic anymore etc what is your take on that do you think that that’s a real thing got me skating on thin ice here um uh I I would say I think anybody who’s doing what they’re passionate about doesn’t have a problem with a work ethic okay doesn’t matter what age they are if you love what you’re doing or you enjoy what you’re doing it doesn’t feel like going to work it feels like going to do something you enjoy even if it’s hard and the work ethic is if it’s hard yeah i mean the work ethic is there um people should pursue their passions and if your passion is construction you’ll your the work ethic should probably be there it’ll kind of follow along it kind of go hand in hand doesn’t mean you have to put in 80 hours a week or even 50 hours a week but you’re maximizing the time that you’re there and you’re being productive you’re you’re you’re on the team you’re a contributor right or anything like that so I I I don’t think they have a bad I don’t think I think they get a bad rap when saying they don’t have the work ethic i think they have a harder time finding where their passion lies do you think but do you think so do you think that there is some skill involved there so there’s innate talent there’s there’s drive let’s call it drive right uh you know god-given ability to think through a problem and then there’s drive but do you think there is a skill set required in navigating you know working with your boss working with others this is a team this is a team sport construction has been it’s always been a team sport do you think there’s a skill set involved there or I have a couple of superintendents in my past that might disagree with that but it was a dictatorship you were just a subject in their court and you just do what they told you to do for with a few of them as well those were those are the the boomers or or they were the the the greatest generation guys they were aging out when I was coming in god you could learn a lot from them they could still throw a hard hat though oh yeah with some force um All right so I was thinking about Otis you remember Otis i remember Otis well when Otis leaves the room the meeting’s over i don’t care what you were saying whether you think you’re done or not when he’s done you’re done that’s it that’s his meeting so anyway Otis left i guess we’re not talking about this anymore guess we’ll pick it up next week same time yes um so ah that’s a great question um I I don’t know that I have a solid answer i’m gonna ask it a different way let me ask you a different way so what do you think about that well so I think there are skills i do i think there are things you can I think you can learn learn skills yes learned skills on how to Well let let me let me approach it this way i I I think that uh for all kinds of uh reasons that I don’t have enough degree to understand psychological uh cultural all these things uh the I I do know that I can you know millennials and the younger kids you know that are 10 20 30 years younger than we are that are in this business uh grew up in a very different time than we did uh we didn’t grow up with technology at all hardly i mean we had VCRs I guess at towns but like let’s take for example I can’t look at a set of drawings on an iPad i can do it i mean I’m not incapable of doing it but I don’t like it it feels very uncomfortable to me cuz I learned how to flip drawings i got used to doing this a lot right so I think I think what’s interesting is we’re the same age and 15 years ago when I got an iPad I figured out how to be able to download a set of drawings onto my iPad so I can stop walking around with a set of plans and I got practiced at zooming in and out and flipping pages and learning how to navigate on drawings on an iPad cuz I might have to walk two or three job sites in a week and I wasn’t going to bring that many sets of plans on a plane with me right so I put everything on an iPad even just the regular one not even those big iPad Pros so I learned that skill and now I can I can I can work off of digital plans if I if I have to i still like paper right well so what I get what I’m getting with is kind of there’s a comfort zone is where I was headed with this so the question is I wrote a I wrote a blog about this about if you’re a natural doer oh I read this one yesterday thank you yeah I read it yesterday uh if you’re a natural doer if you’re a if you’re good at something if you’re if you’re Yeah if you’re a good guitar player because you picked up the guitar and you just kind of learned it and like “Oh shit I’m I’ve got talent i didn’t know I had talent.” Or any other skill mhm how do you teach it how I don’t know how I wrote that song i just wrote it i mean I I just heard it in my head and I wrote it i can’t I mean I can teach you chords i guess I could teach you some theory I suppose mhm i guess maybe I don’t even know theory because I didn’t need it i was that talented well this is the difference between I can teach you I can teach you what to play but I can’t give you the emotion behind it to make it sound like how you want i can’t teach you how to make music i can teach you how to play notes now we’re getting somewhere all right this is This is where I wanted to go okay you can there are there are things there’s skills you can teach but you have to have want the get up and go the that passion you have to want it i had a boss that I had a boss uh that said told me uh I was just starting to kind of like manage people you know so I’m like maybe my late 20s early 30s and I got a project engineer that’s been assigned to me and uh he said you can you are not responsible for motivating that guy he has to motivate himself you can teach him how to write an RFI in a good way you can teach him how to organize himself you can teach him how to manage uh a submitt and and and be and follow up and do all the the good skills that you have to have to be a project manager but it’s like if he’s not motivated that’s not your job to teach him that he’s he should have had that well that kind of goes back to the passion I was talking about if you are passionate about what you’re doing the ethic shows up the motivation shows up so you don’t have to teach that if they’re in the right seat you know this could this could go a few different ways i was thinking a few minutes ago when you were asking that question originally i’m like well well what are they doing are they an estimator are they a project manager are they a superintendent are they trained person because they have different skills you need to be successful in those different roles and just because somebody’s a good superintendent doesn’t mean they’re going to make a great project manager they are different skill sets and if that person’s passion is being in the field and working with the trades and getting their hands dirty or being on the job site wearing boots and a hard hat every day sticking them in the office is not going to motivate them have you ever met a superintendent that wants to sit at a desk ever not a good one that’s right so it’s like it’s you might as well like cut their oxygen off and you know I I was you know I speak for myself that I was pretty versatile i was good at being a superintendent but I was better at being a project manager and I knew that was the direction i was kind of pulled in that direction uh by something outside of me it was like this is where you’re going to be happier and more successful and that was the path I chose i sat I remember I was being interviewed i was in school was about to graduate and I was going through interviews and stuff and I met with big builder big corporate builder guy and HR person came to came to campus and I was told like there’s a there was like this path I was going to like well you’re going to you’re going to start in the office as an estimator a junior estimator and you’re going to rotate through these roles you’re going to then become a field engineer and then but you may not go in this exact order they may be a different order and she’s you know going on and on and I I point blank said I don’t want to estimate I already know I don’t want to do it i if you if I told her I’m such a cocky bastard if you offer me a job I won’t take it i don’t want an I don’t want to be an estimator i want to go to the field and I want to build mhm i didn’t get offered a job probably not surprise but I went and found somebody that would hire me that want would make me a assistant PM assistant superintendent somebody wearing boots because that’s where I wanted to be that was where my passion was i still hate estimating yeah see and you knew that innately i think that might be something that the younger generation struggles with is they don’t have the internal compass or they or they don’t know how to read the internal compass to know I you know I I don’t want to you know I’m not I’m not here to put anybody down or or cast us as versions or anything well we’re talking some generalizations here this I would say I would say I think that the we’re talking about like 20 and 30omes so whatever generation that that category those age groups fall into 20omes 30omes they were they were I think my belief is that they were coddled they were protected they were guided they were told what to do by their parents and they weren’t left to figure it out on their own or given the freedom to figure it out on their own and so they have a very hard time reading their own internal compass they they have been guided and and and kind of brought along on a path that their parents thought was best for them without considering what they really wanted and so they have a very hard time or they struggle with finding their internal compass and knowing where their actual passions lie which is why they change majors they change jobs they hop skip they they just they don’t know how to read themselves yet or they don’t know themselves well enough that’s an interesting take on that i I I I talk about and I say that because I felt that way when I was in my late teens like I I kind of knew where I wanted to go but my parents were not that overbearing or controlling about which direction I took my career they gave me the latitude to kind of explore some of that in college and take different jobs and they never stopped me from doing anything and they didn’t push me in a direction either and that helped me figure out where I should go and what was best for me you mentioned that I so you know my kids I when when my oldest started to think about going to college and thinking about what he wanted to do for you know for for a career and a vocation all that I told all of them I sat I sat sat down all three said don’t go in your destruction well and one of them did but no I kind of two yeah kind of yeah I never said don’t do this but I did tell them I said I am I’m going to struggle helping you find your way with this i would like to give you advice about how to find it but I don’t know how to tell you this goes back to that whole how do you teach somebody something you just understand in intuitively i knew I wanted to be in this business when I was 17 years old 18 I guess right at there somewhere in there i I knew it i didn’t understand the career path there’s a lot of stuff I didn’t understand but I know once someone told me you can make a career of this it was all over like I I I never had any other thought whatsoever i got I took a couple of classes i ch you know I changed you know I took a couple intro classes in school and was all she wrote i mean I never thought of anything else so I was lucky i guess that’s the way I think about it i figured it out i figured it out really early i didn’t have to kind of pinball around um it’s a little bit it’s a little bit my personality too like once I fig I think I got a beat on something I lock in on it pretty hard interesting yeah I could see that i’m I’m not I’m similar but not the same i like I I ping ponged around a little bit on different paths career i looked at chemical engineering there was business there was a brief stint in philosophy um let’s not forget Rockstar that’s right i was also pursuing a music career at the time that materialized into nothing after we cut an album anyway so it’s like I had a lot of passions or a lot of interests and uh wound up in construction because it made a lot of sense to me and it resonated uh with a lot of things that I was looking for in a career um you talked early on about I was standing here yesterday and there wasn’t a building I’m standing here today so do you remember that scene in the Breakfast Club where he goes “I like like you pulled the little chain on the elephant and the light came comes on or it doesn’t you know instantly whether you did it right or wrong.” I loved that which is what drew me to electrician was I could tell right away whether I did it right or not i flipped the switch and the light came on or it didn’t pure fucking magic that’s it pure fucking magic um so that that was something that drew me into the trades was like not delayed grat not delayed satisfaction or delayed um gratification it was like more instant results i got feedback quicker in the trades i liked that plus being an electrician I got to use math and science and my brain a little bit more than some of the other more shall we just say more labor intensive trades like pouring concrete or something not that there’s not some technicalities to it but electrician HVAC plumbing those have a bit more math or science to them than than just brute force but uh so I was drawn to those more uh rigorous trades so you just said something I hadn’t really thought about this you were talking about kind of you know more may generally younger generation was had just narrower guide rails than than we did uh I mean we were left alone for days at times just like figure it out and when you have a good FSO figure shit out yeah i you you that applies across your life you don’t know only how to like figure out how to make dinner thinking or problem solving skills I guess yeah also like well I got to do something for dinner so I guess I better figure it out and it’s kind of like well I guess I better do something with my career i guess I better figure that out what do I like to eat what do I like to do that tracks okay that tracks for me because I I I had a note i was thinking about this as I was you know you know when my when my friend called me and asked me about this i my note was you know the younger the younger generations seem to want more direction from what I what I’ve gathered personally i’ve talked to other they’re used to being spoonfed explicit instructions on how to do things they have YouTube videos to watch to figure out how to do stuff they don’t have to figure shit out on their own they have resources so they’re used to they want resources right you know coming back to the how you started this whole thing right doers how do you teach somebody to do right if they’re passionate about it they’ll tell you how to teach them they will come to you and go “I need you to explain to me how you figured that out how did you make that decision i hate not knowing this you’ve got to tell me like you’ve got to help me out.” Like I need to understand like I agree with what you did and I admire what you did can you explain to me how you how you did that like they’ll ask you when they want to know they will come to you to get the answer just like they will go search it on YouTube or god ask AI now but just like I look up lyrics to songs that I’ve known for 30 years but I don’t know what those three lines are and I literally had to look up Metallica lyrics yesterday for an album that’s 30 years old ah that’s a it’s bad i’ve been like I’ve been like have I been sing i turned out I had one one word wrong but I was like foul with dust and throat I crawl that was the line I couldn’t figure out off the black album and I literally Googled it to look i think it was with Dustin throat I crave oh cuz he had kind of weird well there at the end whatever i was like is he saying crawl or crave or anyway but it’s like they do that they grew up with the internet they grew up with Google they grew up just being able to query how do I do this what does this mean and so they will go and ask questions to figure out what they want to understand and if they’re not asking you questions they’re not passionate about what they’re doing might be a conclusion we could draw that’s a good that’s an interesting insight i hadn’t thought about it quite like that that’s what I take about the younger generations is they expect to be they expect to have a full understanding of what’s happening before they do it and if they don’t they’re going to ask questions because they don’t they’re hesitant to do stuff not knowing how to get to the result you’re looking for mhm that’s why they go i watch I watch our 11-year-old like before he builds stuff with his Legos he’ll watch a video on how they build it so he knows how to get through it to get to the end result that is fascinating to have the to have the Lego done and he’s done so many of them now that he doesn’t need to watch the videos anymore but he used to watch the videos to see how they built it so because my dad used to get really pissed at me because I would not read the instructions this sounds funny coming from a guy who grew up and built stuff but yeah uh and and I relied on and and I and I lecture contract drawings and contract contract contract now but throw IKEA directions when I was a kid and I built Legos it was like the fun was figuring it out without the instructions i loved that still do when my kids were that generation they’ve always had the instructions on demand available with a video to walk them through it and they don’t like risk yeah my dad he was so mad i can remember him just growling at me like a bear again we’re speaking generalized but they’re they’re very riskaverse they don’t like to fail they’ve been given participation trophies they’ve been rewarded for trying but they they like to succeed and failure is an ethma to them i think that’s the right way to use that word they hate failure so they will do everything they can to not fail and that will be like doing their own research okay so all right so let’s asking questions all right so now let’s let’s turn this now we’re Yeah we’re okay asking for mentoring yes asking for mentoring right asking for you know so all right if they care they’ll they’ll pull it out so let’s let’s flip this so we’re we’re us you know we we have we have peers in we’re in charge now who the fuck put us in charge jesus gen X in charge of everything you’re lucky you all still have jobs just you know put a key around our neck and let us We’ll get in and out of the door we’ll figure it out we’ll figure it out so No I got it i can make dinner right now on a nuke a hot dog we have we so we have peers in the industry uh and and there are some you know 30 40 year olds that are that have younger generations reporting them and they’ve got it so how do you structure something given what we just said like okay well all right they younger generations want to succeed it’s it’s not a lack of want they have a passion but they their their metrics or their mean not metrics their means to learn are differently that different than what we were Mhm we weren’t taught shit they just told us go out there and figure it out so for the most part so yeah so how we weren’t encouraged to fail but we were allowed to fail oh okay there you go so all right so then how does that translate so I’m I run a construction business i have a friend that I that asked me this question how do you structure a training program a mentorship program even perhaps or or even just advice to a younger generation of how to how to survive this business not burn out learn something uh advance it’s all those things what is that h how do we how do we help uh those business owners and we’ve got clients like this we’ve got clients at our age and older that are like these fucking kids i don’t know how to teach them so yeah what is Shameless plug you hire a consulting yeah you hire us we know how to do that did you say breaking the fourth wall i did it i did it i did too yeah so so so so you’re asking what do you think what do you think that looks like do we have any solutions to you know wrap this up a little bit what yeah you know beyond the uh uh So how do what would I tell Yeah your friend who’s a construction business owner how do you teach the younger generation well I would say first and and remember we you’ve got you’ve got a gener we we’ve established that we have our generation learned an entirely different way sure so well as somebody who now learns similar to the way that millennials and Gen Z learns because I’m doing research and I’m watching YouTube videos to learn things and I’m ask I’m asking AI how to do certain things or I you know I don’t stop learning and there’s new things for us to figure out all the time so I’m I’m certainly aligned with how they learn to some extent mhm you know I sure have a running start but what would I tell your friend who’s a business owner i would say first let’s make sure you got the right people you got the right people that are showing the interest the passion right right if they are why don’t you start by asking them “What could I do to help you learn this better?” I like that like why don’t you ask them they’re they’re people like they’ll have if they know themselves at all they should be able to tell you well I learn best when I learn best if you do this i need to I would like to spend time with this person i would like to spend some time in estimating i would like to spend some time in business development tell them look there’s no wrong answer here but tell me what what would make sense to you just as a starting point for the conversation i’m not saying you give them exactly what they’re asking for but I’ll give you an example when I got hired by a big electrical contractor to go build highrises I had never built a high-rise before i was an industrial guy so everything was a couple of stories but it was massive millions of square feet me their first high-rise I built was the first high-rise I built so they gave me one they gave me a high-rise and I said “Well I’ve never built a high-rise before can I go work in your estimating department for a few months?” And they were like “Of course.” Yeah i’m like I want to learn I want to learn how to build it on paper before I go out and try and run it on the job site as a project manager and that was how I asked them to learn i think if you asked them what could I do to help you learn you might get some answers that would help yeah that reminds me my I was given what I considered excellent advice i was just come out of school my stepdad told me uh you know congratulations you’re got a degree you don’t know shit you don’t know shit but then he said he he said “Here’s what you need to do you need to go learn how to build.” Mhm here’s how you do that uh you go find a superintendent an older guy an older guy out there in the field and you get in his hip pocket and here’s how you endear yourself to him you ask him questions and if he doesn’t answer you then go find another old guy to ask questions until you find somebody that will answer them if you’ve never read the book How to Win Friends and Influence People that’s exactly where that came from that’s where you need to start that’s where that came from people love to talk about themselves they love to share their knowledge their stories their experiences they like to feel like they’re contributing to other people and that’s exactly what you’re talking about yeah endear yourself to someone who looks like they might know what they’re doing even if they don’t know what they’re doing so I didn’t get that pretend i didn’t get that advice but I always kind of innately knew like surround yourself with the people who you want to be like uh try and play at a higher level than you’re at um make it up and then back it up was a good one for me like yeah I can do that and then go figure it out yeah just so you say yes and you say yes to when you say yes a door opens when you say no a door closes and that door is very hard to reopen so I was I learned at a very early age try and say yes to as many things as you can and figure it out and that’s where you rely on your god-given talents and knowledge and skills and your education to back you up so you can think critically make smart decisions ask for help when you need it learn how to ask for help go learn go be successful i’ve always said that I I anytime I hired somebody I wanted I would much prefer to have to kind of yank the chain a little bit and pull them back than have to kick them off the porch every morning yes that’s that’s a very Kentucky thing to say a little bit yeah yeah which is another way of saying you want smart self-starter motivated people i would much prefer somebody that’s just like dying to go get it than somebody says “I know everything.” Yeah well the people who are dying to go get it are exhausting too sometimes sometimes they can be exhausting but you want somebody that’s hungry i want somebody who shows up on time ready to work ready to learn ready to do what you need to do to make the job the project the company successful uh I think that’s all you really need that’s the raw materials from there I can build on that so to tell your friend make sure you got people who want to be there and are motivated they’re passionate about what you do they have a you know we talk about things like shared visions a shared vision is just you’re both aiming for the same goal really you know so um okay so the last thing I would say to your business owner friend is um you have to understand that they because they learn differently be prepared to be exhausted by their questions do not let it get under your skin they’re asking the questions because they are passionate about what they’re doing i used to get into uh arguments in the job trailer with other trades occasionally and I had this superintendent Bruce big shout out to Bruce still a friend of mine still around Bruce Sloan um Bruce used to was the general superintendent the grizzled old you know you know former iron worker and he’d go “Okay okay boys i love the passion in the room now let’s calm it down a little bit and go out there and build some shit.” Yeah um passion is what gets them motivated and stuff like that so um don’t be be prepared to be worn out uh but it’s to make them better well so that that touches on a really important point be you know at some point you cross over in your career you get to a certain age i think most people do i guess you start to want to give back a little bit mhm you know you’re like I I know I still don’t know everything but I have a lot of information to give uh so you want you know people start to kind of get this feeling of I think I’d like to teach somebody something yeah uh you know I told you early on my parents were teachers they were educators um that was kind of the family business except for me i’m the outlier who went into business for himself and did all this other stuff but somewhere probably early 40s is when that kicked in i’m like that’s when I started I was a project manager senior project manager whatever and I started saying give me some project engineers i want to train them i put them on my team i’ll educate them i’ll I’ll level them up because that’s when I knew I knew enough and I was confident enough in my abilities to start teaching other people or Yeah you had you had an idea right i I knew I knew how to be I was already a very good project manager and I’m like I could teach this to other people and I think I can make some more project managers and I’m still in touch with a couple of the guys I mentored back then which would be 15 almost 15 years ago now uh they’ve gone to be very successful um I’m I’m just proud to be part of their story you know that I I don’t know if I told you this before when I you know when I when we did Limbrook Mhm uh I’ I’d been out of the building side of the business i’d been working for a developer for about four or five years at that point and I came back and I used to tell people “Wow I missed I missed the smell of form oil.” Which was kind of true it wasn’t exactly true but it was I did kind of I did kind of miss I missed construction you you didn’t miss not wearing a tie i didn’t have to wear a tie but I did talk to lawyers all the time and I hated that part but the truth really one of there were multiple reasons there were a lot of reasons but one of them legitimately was I I had a point of view i was like you know what i I know something about how to be a PM and I want to teach pees and APMs i got a point of view and I want I want to teach somebody this stuff i like our friend Ryan yes very much very much yeah cole um no kind of on the same level no he’s more same level he our buddy our buddy Ryan yeah yes very much very much him very much well that’s why I started this company like I had a point of view i had knowledge to share and I was like I guess consulting is where it’s at okay uh I’m going to put a I’m going to wrap this up put a bow on it i’m going to try and put a bow on this let’s put a bow on this so we can put another Christmas tree so uh yeah by the time this comes out it might be Christmas you never know that’s right so happy Hanukkah everybody maz um so we have multiple generations working in a in a same environment that’s always been true when we came into the business they were boomers and the greatest generation were still working to some degree uh oh sure mostly boomers it’s a massive generation but uh we learned differently we had different we we grew up differently than our parents did our the the the people behind us and our kids have grown up differently than we have so we’ve learned differently we have different way of taking in information uh I think there’s a couple universal things here uh have you know if if a person has passion for the business what they’re doing learning how to be a sparky or an estimator estimator project manager project manager whatever or just a field hand even a technician right if they love being there and they get and they get personal satisfaction out of it right if you got somebody that has some work you know it’s just called work ethic is what they always called it my parents always called it work work ethic motivation whatever you want to call it it so the takeaway for a manager is recognize it also understand that you might get worn out with questions or the means by which they come to you with questions might feel different to you because it’s not how you would you went about it or taught to go about it but it doesn’t change the the intent right right it’s the passion for understanding right excellent i think that puts it on puts a period on it pretty well all right excellent um check us out on Apple Spotify YouTube and uh we’ll see you on the next one see you next time thanks